Martial Arts Sparring Techniques: Has Martial Arts Lost Its Nature Of War?
I mean martial arts now are in a complete shambles, u have styles that are bringing it down so much
now when i think of martial arts i think of 7 yr old tkd blackbelts doing the crane technique. i mean where the martial arts are inteded for war that’s like watering down the military. the art of war by sun tzu or the Japanese schools that follow bushido. that is real martial spirit. not point sparring.
what im trying to say is why are martial arts allowing these crap arts to be even called a martial art, jut because i have a gun dosent mean im in the army.
in training have u been pushed, mentally and physically, I’m not talking about forms but cardio, have u been pushed till u have to stop.
oh and gary ahahah nice comment, why do u get so defensive for, i know tkd sucks, so does the rest of the world, face it u spent your whole life on a bunch of bollocks system, and I don’t think tkd does ground techniques or joint locks, get r facts right mate
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No retard, the crappy TKD school you went to didn’t teach ground or joint locks. My school taught for sport AND self defense. If you knew a little more about the art, you wouldn’t have said that. You tried TKD for a short period, so I doubt you would have been able to learn anything at the school even if it was legit. Of course, you can’t even find a school to teach you how to punch!
So no, martial arts have not become completely watered down. I am hopeful that the popularity of MMA will push martial arts schools back to where they should be. Schools who don’t teach for real life application will not be able to stay in business forever if they can’t show the effectiveness of the art they are teaching. Of course, I did see an ad for a school that promised "Cage ready in 9 months!". So hopefully the McDojo mentality won’t screw up what could have MA’s headed in the right direction.
Yes I have been pushed until I dropped. Running suicide drills for a whole class. We have had students cry, bleed, and puke.
We’ve had broken bones, concussions, and more. I have yet to find another school like that one. Though I have visited one that close to my new home that does justify your opinion of TKD.
And thanks for the two points!
Well seeing that Martial Arts for the most part have little place on the battle field. I think its natural for it to become more sporting in nature. I mean Samurai used captives to practice cutting technique. And with the advent of civiliztion Martial Arts just became more civilized and lost its purpose for survival and warfare. So sport became the natural progression. Plus with money being a big motivating factor. Alot of systems are simplified so more people can participate. So in essence you have a point.
NO.
It is only the left wing liberal pacifist Americans who think the martial arts are a sport have watered it down to a dance.
It is the money grubbing egoists who fake fight in a ring for ticket buying spectators who have reduced the martial arts to a circus like performance.
After WW 2 Japan was not allowed to practice Martial Arts/ for killing or defense. That’s when Judo as a form of competition came about as a sport. Much of the watering down can be attributed to this. Martial Arts are not only about war anyway. They are about being the best you as an individual can be in all aspects of your life. Balance if you will. Brazilian Jujitsu has none of the Pomp and Circumstance that you may be thinking of and it did evolve later, and is just about fighting.
‘martial art’ has not changed, being the ‘art of war’.
however the many martial arts certainly have changed to where they are useless.
As to going downhill to a sport as some say, there is nothing wrong with a sport as long as it is full contact.
Since then it is real life.
The english term ‘sport’ is applied to life and death originally anyway. Hunting,fighting and even duelling to the death are considered ‘great sport’, and ‘jolly sporting’ old boy.
anything that has only a nature of war is sure to fall apart. We as we progress find war is not what we desire, and so Martial Arts is about evadence of war not creation. To many today think that the creation of chaos is good, and having everyone think you fight about things in life is chaos.
Martial Arts are about self defense, and most arts teach that not offence. They are about Safety, not someones lack of it.
To many today think that being a good fighter is equal to being a good person, it isn’t.
Alot of great people are the direct results of TKD and other arts, so I am thankful for what you diss. I want and desire peace in life, and train as a way to find that inside. It makes me happy to train, I do not do it to be a tough, or cause conflict or even think that doing so is cool.
Martial Arts has kept it’s principles, it is people that are failing and losing theirs. Tell your mom that you want to only learn to harm, as none of the other skills have value. If she loves you, watch the sadness your choice makes. Being a sport fighter has nothing to do with the reality of the streets and why we have martial arts.
If you are talking of OKINAWAN originated martial arts they are "civilian self protection" arts developed by a people denied weapons.The proper term is BUNMIN GOSHIN JUTSU not BUDO.
The concept of BUDO or war way was adopted when these arts were introduced to JAPAN and the grading testing and ranking requirements of JAPANESE BUDO were applied to them to make them acceptable to the JAPANESE people.
They were never designed for agreement matches whether it was in a tournament or a street fight but for dealing with attacks by the criminal element sudden swift deadly over in 2nds everything done instinctively without thought due to hard long training so trying to use them in a tournament or 2 idiots agreeing to beat each other up in the street doesn’t work.
To some extent but only because fighting is no longer hand to hand but gun to gun and bomb to bomb.
But to those of us who train and train to be real and train hard martial arts have not lost their martial nature.
There are different art for everyone, not every person will have the physical atributes for some arts, why should that mean that they cant do martial arts all together?
I think if you are capable that you should always push yourself, like Funakoshi sayed, karate is good because unlike Judo which requires alot of physical strength right away, a person can develop their strength more gradualy, that isnt an excuse for easy training, my Shihan is over 60 for example and he does as much and probably more than anyone at the dojo
So its good that soft arts excist out there, that way everyone will have a chance to practice, but if a person is capable they should push themself, do harder arts or train harder, if ou do TKD just give a few Muay Thai lessons a go and see how physicaly demanding it is and if your in Muay Thai go take and few TKD classes so you can focus on your kicks
Theres no argument that some arts are tougher than others and are better at creating good fighters but it doesnt mean that the softer or crazyer arts shouldn’t excist, they are the Yin to the Yang, they may seem unnecesary but they add that extra spice to the martial art world
I think of martial art realisticaly, its true that TKD has been watered down since the olympics and so have most of the Judo schools, its true that point sparing does not interest me and is not the best way to practice realisticaly, and Im quick to point that out if people say otherwise or ask about it, but Im still glad those arts excist for the people that follow them, it may not be for me but it is for some people out there and as long as they look at things realisticaly themselves Im happy for them
In his time Bruce Lee said pretty much the same thing. He disdained the ridiculous practice of faux fighting, especially in training. In his own schools he pushed for actual full contact sparring, as only in this way could a person elevate themselves by knowing what it was like to truly fight.
The point system you mention seems to be an extension of this, and while it may have a place, after all people have a choice in how they compete, I think it is better to have real fights with real outcomes. MMA has done much to change this in my opinion. We are now seeing the most powerful application of the best styles, and there seems to be a constant evolution of this sport. However, even in MMA you can see that some tactics might be ineffective in the real world, as ground fighting in a street fight would probably get you kicked to pieces before you had a chance to submit or ground and pound an opponent.
In the end, it is the constant and ever changing fight scenario that a martial artist must consider. What works in a match would probably be ineffective on the street. What works against an opponent with a sword or gun would probably also be different.
As Bruce Lee said, "Be like water" Could anyone say it better?
not everyone needs to defend there small island kingdom from marauding pirates and thiefs like the okinawans
martial arts exists for fitness and sport as well as the killing of the enemies the only thing i dont like is i dont have access to good dojos
but its not that bad i guess
What you’ve seen are mcdojos.
Now you need to see a MMA gym or a place that teaches kickboxing or something
Hi there
I can only answer this one from a Japanese perspective. Nearly all of the arts practiced today are not Koryu. Karate, judo etc aren’t even 100 years old so they are a modern interpretation.
What you have to remember is that most of what is taught today came after the 1500′s when the need for fighting or carrying swords was obsolete. Practicing martial arts after this period was frowned upon so the image of the arts was made to be more gentlemanly. This is one reason why most modern arts focus on defense rather than killing techniques. I agree with you that all the spirit and feeling has been lost in modern martial arts.
The focus now being either on competition or the collection of forms. None of this has any real connection to the arts of old.
Now there’s nothing wrong with the arts of today. You just have to accept that they are a million miles away from what they were intended.
Like all products they are sold as a modern day equivalent.
The fact is that the arts are what they are and not what used to be.
They have evolved to suit the market place of supply and demand.
MMA, BJJ, kick boxing are all examples of how the times have changed. They have nothing in common with killing techniques of fudel times. They are sports or modern ways of fighting by definition.
Only time will tell if this is a good thing or not.
If youre still seeking the ways of old then you need to find an art that is still considered to be Koryu. You will struggle to find any good ones outside Japan
Best wishes
idai
it’s all about how you understand the martial arts.
I asked an interesting question concerning this a few days ago:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AtIcbG6_FthXRNqLxv5CWtXsy6IX;_ylv=3?qid=20071107021426AAa4fxr
The pretty techniques taught in class are usually not gonna be your "weapon of choice" in a real combat situation but usually these excercises are mainly intended to teach you principles like balance, stance, using hips and feet as driving force,…
The practicioners of the martial arts used these techniques to train a few 100 years ago and resulted in using their knowledge of the art to fight so there must be some use to these techniques, otherwise they would not be taught.
I practice both capoeira and aikido and both are a bit "disputed arts" concerning their useability. I can only say that the principles and excercises you do all have their use if you really look into the core of the excercise and yes indeed many of them are very useful. As you grow in the knowledge of your art your ability to really use these techniques for defense gets better but even in you can analyse the basics as a beginner you can distill the usefull from the "technical training"
Truly the arts have watered down just a bit. I do have to dispute claims that BJJ is watered down, since it was made to fight in it’s own right.
In all, your opinion on the state of martial arts is important; it’s the martial artists who want to make sure that the work survives, is what’s important.
Also, you guys have to also realize, Japanese martial arts are a mix between watered down and evolved martial arts, since they came from mainland martial arts.
WITH POINT SPARRING, IT HAS IT’S MERITS. IN MY EYES, IT’S GOOD TO DO POINT SPARRING; YOU KNOW THAT MOST OFTEN, IF YOU GET HIT IN A GOOD SPOT, LIKE A PUNCH OR KICK TO THE FACE, OR LEGS, YOU’RE GOING DOWN; THE FIGHT HAS BEEN LOST. Though, full contact non point sparring is equally important; you’re learning how to take a hit and give one where point sparring is to block it and make sure you don’t get hit.
Also, it is hard to believe, but TKD was made with the intentions of being easy to judge and watch, when it was invented. There are countless other Korean martial arts that were made with the intent to maim and kill.
Can’t think of anything else, so peace.